10 replies to this topic

[Tamvegas]

Hi, looking to upgrade the suspension on my 2010 9er.

The bike has travelled 20,000km and has totally stock original suspension front and rear.

I have replaced the fork fluid with 10W with 133mm air gap.  

Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 4 tyres.

When pushed the bike feels vague in the front end, running wide in turns, no real feedback and far too much dive.

The front and rear suspension feel unmatched, and the bike has a tendency to wallow when pushed through corners on B grade roads.

Apart from the suspension I find it to be a really great bike.

I have read through all Suspension topics I have been able to find on the Carpe Forum but would still appreciate some feedback and advice.

 

My options appear to be 1. Quality front fork springs for my weight and trial and error with fork oil weight and air gap. 2. Option one plus Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators. 3. Cartridge Conversion Kit. 4. Replace the front end.

 

I need assistance choosing between options 2 and 3.

 

Cartridge Vs Emulator.   

Does anybody have any experience and constructive advice regarding either the Adreani Misano or Matris cartridges versus the Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators? There appears to be good support for the Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators on this forum from earlier years, but I have been unable to find any feedback or reviews on a front forks cartridge conversion for a TDM900.

 

So far, the Adreani Misano and Matris units are the only cartridge conversions I have beeb able to find for a TDM900.

The Matris cartridges are a little more expensive but appear to have gained the vote for various other makes and models as the superior unit. 

 

Any assistance appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Bjørge]

Cartridge Vs Emulator.   

Does anybody have any experience and constructive advice regarding either the Adreani Misano or Matris cartridges versus the Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators? There appears to be good support for the Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators on this forum from earlier years, but I have been unable to find any feedback or reviews on a front forks cartridge conversion for a TDM900.

 

I've had an 850Mk1 (cartridge forks) with RaceThech valves and also a 9er in which I installed Gold Valve Emulators.

The Mk1 forks were way better even after the 9er upgrade. But, of course, spring weights/oil etc. weren't identical, so some room for misinpretation of what makes a quality suspension.

[trevini]

I have the YSS emulators (pretty much copies of the Racetec units) in my 900 and it has totally transformed the front end (it wasn’t bad before). I also have an Ohlins rear shock (mt09) which I got from Fixitsan. Since fitting, I’ve covered about 12000 miles and the setup gives a nice plush ride that is stable and consistent when cornering. I’m not the fastest rider but I would say fairly brisk is normal for me and I regularly get to the edge of the rear tyre. The main difference is cornering in the wet. The bike just seems to find grip everywhere. Tyre wise, I’m running Roadsmart 4s - highly recommended. Prior to that I had Michelin Road 5s, which lasted 10,200 miles. They would have gone longer, but I got a puncture in the rear which still had just over 2mm tread left, but wasn’t worth trying to repair.

 

Regarding the emulators. They do take a bit of setting up to get spot on, but after that it’s all just servicing pretty much with oil changes etc regularly. In my experience, the 900 is a little sensitive to the front preload setting and can feel like it’s going to tuck if set a little too low, made worse by the standard springs being a dual rate of soft and even softer. It’s worth taking the time to set the sag and spring rates correctly at both ends.

[Tamvegas]

@ Bjørge, thank you for input and taking the time to reply. Theoretically I think the cartridges should be better than emulators, but I also suspect there comes a point where good quality emulators may just about equal a cheap cartridge. The only advantage then being external adjustments but with a premium of about double the price. If I could find feedback that there is a cartridge conversion which people find superior to emulators I would buy it, especially in view of the external adjusters. 

 

@ Trevini, thank you for the tips. The YSS emulators appear to be about half the price of of the Racetec. As I have been unable to find any feedback on the net for TDM900 cartridge conversions I'm thinking I may go emulators.

 

Is there any further information you could share on your front suspension setup such as your front springs (make/model/rating/linear/progressive), fork oil brand and weight, and your weight with riding gear. Additionally, how did you find the installation instructions from YSS? Were the instructions clear and easy to follow, do you need to modify the forks, were their setup recommendations close to your final configuration? 

 

I like the idea of an Ohlins rear shock. At only 5mm longer the MT09 should be a good fit. Shame they don't make cartridges for the front forks. What model Ohlins rear shock did you get? 

[trevini]

@ Bjørge, thank you for input and taking the time to reply. Theoretically I think the cartridges should be better than emulators, but I also suspect there comes a point where good quality emulators may just about equal a cheap cartridge. The only advantage then being external adjustments but with a premium of about double the price. If I could find feedback that there is a cartridge conversion which people find superior to emulators I would buy it, especially in view of the external adjusters. 

 

@ Trevini, thank you for the tips. The YSS emulators appear to be about half the price of of the Racetec. As I have been unable to find any feedback on the net for TDM900 cartridge conversions I'm thinking I may go emulators.

 

Is there any further information you could share on your front suspension setup such as your front springs (make/model/rating/linear/progressive), fork oil brand and weight, and your weight with riding gear. Additionally, how did you find the installation instructions from YSS? Were the instructions clear and easy to follow, do you need to modify the forks, were their setup recommendations close to your final configuration? 

 

I like the idea of an Ohlins rear shock. At only 5mm longer the MT09 should be a good fit. Shame they don't make cartridges for the front forks. What model Ohlins rear shock did you get? 

 

 

This might go on a bit....

 

Me

 

I'm not heavy, weighing in at around 85- 90KG in full kit (depending on summer or winter riding).

 

Front end

Standard 2004 MY fork springs with Dextron 3 ATF set at 130mm height. 7 turns of preload giving me 58mm of rider sag. Free sag is 30mm, static sag is 45mm. I left the adjuster ring in the fork (you have to cut the adjuster rod to fit the emulators) and have that set to pos 2. On the emulator, I have three holes drilled in the top plate of the valve (they come with one hole drilled, but I experienced chatter with only one - the extra two are the same diameter as the original drilled hole) and have it set at three turns preload on the adjuster. On the original damper rod, the existing holes are opened out and two extra holes added slightly higher up (as per instructions for the gold valves). It took a few goes to get the setup how I wanted it.

 

I did try some harder springs and also heavier oil to go with, but there was too much of an imbalance between front and rear for my liking. The instructions missed a few important details, but the instructions for the gold valves will tell you all you need to know. 

 

Rear end

Ohlins shock for an MT09 - I bought second hand from Fixitsan on here. I'm running the rear spring at standard rate for a 2004 900 with a preloaded length of 170mm. This gives ma static sag of 18mm and rider sag of 38mm. Adjuster set at 10 clicks out. 

 

The above settings work well for me and give a nice plush ride without any wallow when cornering briskly. Tyre wear is spot on at both ends. I never carry a pillion, so no idea what it would be like (plus it'd be a faff to adjust the rear preload due to access). I do run with either a top box of tail pack most of the time and occasionally add a couple of E21 boxes if I have more to carry/touring. 

 

Hope that helps!

 

Trev

[Tamvegas]

That's a big help, thanks heaps Trev.

I'm 90kg with kit, so your settings should work well for me.

Emulators are a lot more attractive with the initial groundwork already done.

 

I'm surprised the 2004 standard springs worked for you being somewhat softer than the 2002-2003 fork springs.

I noted that dandywarhol also reverted back to his standard springs, but his were the stronger 2003 fork springs.

There's certainly no harm in my trialling the standard springs.

 

Had a chuckle when I read you used Dex III ATF, maybe your're about my vintage when manufacturers used to recommend Dex III as the fork fluid.

I still use it myself when I need a 10W fork oil.

 

It appears that dandywarhol provided a guide for fitting Race Tech Gold Emulators at http://www.geocities...etech_page.html many years ago.

Unfortunately that link doesn't work anymore.

Is there another link I could use for that information, or does anyone have a copy of his guide? 

 

Cheers

[trevini]

I like to enjoy a more plush ride due to me being of early 60s vintage and the fact I ride a lot of B and C class roads in relatively poor condition. I do actually look like my avatar pic, although that is my body double (minus glasses) from the Weetabix advert in my avatar. 

 

 

https://youtu.be/X4q..._HKqDcdsCcZvBG0

 

 

 

 

I forgot to add, its worth picking up some spare tube to make new spacers. I did that rather than cut the originals down (not for any particular reason). I used the same overall length of spring/tube as original. I suspect with my weight and the lower rated part of the spring being very soft, a fair chuck of travel has been taken up with the preload. Regardless of all that, it works for me. 

 

There's plenty of information on the site here and generally available on the web and YouTube to fit emulators. Its really just a case of strip the forks, remove the damper rods, open up and add the extra holes, cut the rebound adjuster rod near the top and pop it all back together again with a base setting to try it out. FYI, I welded a "T" handle to the top of one of the adjuster rods to make rebound adjustment easier once I'd removed the top cap, spacer, spring and emulator. I use a long magnetic grabber to pull the valve out to make adjustments. I also find it easier to seat the valve when replacing with partial weight of the spring on it while lowering with the magnetic tool holding the valve. A couple of times I dropped it it without doing that and it twisted a bit on the way down and didn't seat correctly. Hope that's clear as it's one of those things that's easier to show someone!

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Edited by trevini, 21 September 2024 - 03:40 pm.

[Tamvegas]

Thanks Trev, more really useful information!

Fundamentally I'm trying to avoid re-inventing the wheel.

I read somewhere on the forum that dandywarhol says he's about 80kg.

I was hoping he included the final settings he used in his Race Tech guide.

I could then use his information combined with your settings as a starting guide.

If not, your information is my starting point.

About the worst I can do is destroy an emulator.

 

Loved the Weetabix add.   

[dapleb]

I will alert randy borehole to this thread to see if he has any words of wisdom to impart!

[Tamvegas]

I will alert randy borehole to this thread to see if he has any words of wisdom to impart!

 

Thank you dapleb, much appreciated,

[Tamvegas]

Has anyone fitted 2002 or 2003 TDM900 damper rods to a 2004 - 2014 model?

 

I was hoping to modify a set of damper rods before stripping the fork legs down to fit emulators.

There are a number of fork leg part number changes between 2003 and 2004, including the damper rods.

 

I have tried a Parts Locator service, eBay Worldwide (Parts and Wrecking), Gumtree and Wanted Ads here on Carpe.

So far the only damper rods I have been able to find are 2002 models, but with the different part numbers I'm thinking they may either not fit or work properly.