181 replies to this topic

[AzzA]

As Nick (OldGit) has mentioned above, there are two distinctly different products from Dobeck that pertain to the TDM900:

1: TFI-1025

2: EJK

The TFI-1025 is the product that I have given a guide for, as per the title of the thread, and this has created interest and conversation pertaining to the EJK.
The two products are very similar in end result but, if you follow my guide and only have "bolt on" modifications, then the TFI-1025 is by far the easier to install. ("Bolt on" = exhaust, air filter, sprockets, etc...)

For anyone considering one of the Dobeck products, I strongly recommend the TFI-1025 based on my experience with the unit and my technical assessment of how it works. (I have a background in electromechanical and electrochemical instrumentation, if that means anything.)

Why choose the TFI-1025 when the EJK is the newer and more capable unit?
Because the TFI-1025 is cheaper; easier to install; easier to tune; and has enough function to overcome the shortcomings of the TDM EFI/ECU.
It only requires basic electrical and mechanical skills, and anyone with the ability to follow instructions with due care should be able to achieve very satisfactory results... and you don't need any more than a few screwdrivers and an Allen key to do the entire job (for the basic install and tune).


If enough forum members are interested I could condense the TFI-1025 instructions into one new thread and, perhaps, have that thread locked; this thread has attracted so much attention and has encountered some cross-chatter on the EJK that it is obviously creating confusion for members. Alternately, I could compile a *.doc file for download and link that in the first posting. We could then start a thread specifically for the EJK.

MODERATORS (oi look over 'ere) and members please let me know your wishes; I'm happy to give back to this forum after having received so much great info and advice in the past.

Thank you Carpe.

[AzzA]

Have you guys done 'the airbox mod'? See JBX site.

The airbox mod' only seems to give good result on pre-2007 TDM900's; the flap on these bikes actuates around 4000RPM whereas 2007+ bikes it actuates at around 2000RPM.

Following my previous post. test-rode the bike, same parameters as Azza: 1100 RPM 12KPH and 1400RPM 14 KPH (both bikes have identical RPM Vs Speed parameters!, probably due to the almost identical gearing).

I regret to report substantial surging on both occasions. Surging disappeared, on first gear, only at about 3400 RPM.

I wonder whether there is a possibility that the EJK is not correctly installed and actually does not have any effect? Would it be possible for the system to be incorrectly connected to the injectors and thus have no effect on them while still they keep functioning as before???

Anyway, I tweaked the throttle rapidly while watching the leds - the 2 steady leds stay on, while "on top of them" red leds blink across from position 1 to 4 and disappear. Is that what I should expect to see?

Danresh

Danresh,

try the age old "seat of the pants" method; set progressively richer than you're presently at, if that fails then try progressively leaner... just try and find yourself some isolated traffic-free (SAFE) road for some test runs.

I'm sorry I can't offer more help than that, but without some "hand-on" it's hard to be definitive... but it sounds like you may still be too lean or, less likely, have gone too rich.

If you're able to give it a try over the next couple of days, please let me know how you get on; if you're not having any positive results I'll try and get Dobeck to offer some help.

[danresh]

Azza,

Went on a 2 hrs. test ride. Found a deserted road strip and experimented. The best results I managed to achieve are as follows:

EJK settings- Green (cruise fuel) on maximum i.e position 8 (richest possible) !!
Yellow (accel. fuel) position 4
Red (full throttle fuel) position 4
Green/Blue (idle switch point) position 2 !!
Yellow/Blue (acce. switch point) position 4
Red/Blue ( Full throttle switch point) position 4
The Dobeck initial settings were: 3, 4, 3, 5, 4, 4, from green to red/blue in the above order

Idle - 1250-1300 RPM.

Crawling, 1st gear, idle, pronounced surging.

1st gear
1500-2000 RPM, surging calming down as Rpm goes up.
2000-2500, surging, bearable.
3000-4000 very slight surging/

2nd gear,
1500-surging.
2000 surging bearable
2500 slight surging
3000 almost smooth.

3rd gear,
2000 almost smooth!
2500 -3000 smooth.

Accelaration good and smooth from any RPM and at any gear.

When changing the green settings while stationary and at steady 2000 RPM, contrary to the operating instructions, I hardly notice any change in exhaust sound. Sounds smooth across the total range. There might be a slight RPM change, although not sure whether real or just as a result of the throttle's slight involuntary movement.

Just to be sure, if the system were incorrectly installed - would the injectors still function (in their original map) or would they just stop operating and the engine would not start??

Comments?

Thanks for your time and helping efforts,

Danresh

[AzzA]

G'day Danresh,

the EJK 3.5 is also capable of subtracting fuel from the injector pulse, so that tells me that if the bike is running at all then the EJK is most likely installed correctly; the EJK interrupts the OEM circuit, unlike the TFI which piggybacks.

You've mentioned that you have cancelled the O2 sensor, I suggest checking this to be sure; making the setting as rich as you did should have produced a too rich symptom, but it doesn't sound like it did which suggests something is keeping it lean... unless the surging you're describing is the result of being too rich, but you don't mention any hesitation or fuel smell which would go along with being too rich.

The TDM should be smooth around 2500RPM regardless of mufflers etc... there is definitely something amiss.

I've invited Dobeck to get involved in the discussion (because I don't have an EJK and you're so far away for me to offer anything but suggestions based on accounts of your observations) but I suggest you also contact them... from what I've heard they're eager to help those that ask.



For anyone else looking on.... I recommend the TFI-1025 as the product of choice to tune your TDM900

[Jesse]

Has anyone tried adjusting CO settings once TFI-1025 (or EJK) has been installed? In my case I have the TFI-1025 and have found significant improvement but there is a hesitancy when accelerating from a standstill particularly on hill starts. This can be induced in the shed as well by giving a quick blip of throttle followed by short quick small blips. I have actually been able to stall the bike when doing this. My bike has valves checked O2 sensor disconnected and throttle bodies synchronised. I thought CO settings might still be worth trying as they are set at idle. Any suggestions or opinions would be appreciated.

[AzzA]

Jesse,

sounds like you've got a too rich situation; you should have no hesitancy when blipping the throttle. IIRC, the Dobeck website tells of a procedure to tune the TFI and checking for hesitancy on accellertion by blipping... IIRC, it's for setting the second pot (yellow).

My experience was that the TDM didn't need much if any more fuel by the yellow pot. So it should be set to 2 o'clock or less.

The TDM benefits most from fuel added by the first pot (green) and you should find the ideal somewhere between 2-4. 2 is recommended for stock pipes and filter and 4 would be too rich for almost any bolt-on mods. I found my tune at just a shade under 3 IIRC.

The 3rd and 4th pots deal with wide open throttle and very high RPM running... not somewhere most TDMs would spend a lot of time.

Jesse, my recommendation to you, is to set the 2nd (yellow) and 3rd (red) pots fully anti-clockwise (their zero or off point) and set the 4th pot fully clockwise (its full RPM position). Making these settings will turn off all TFI function except for the 1st green pot; you need to get this one setting correct first as this is your base air/fuel ratio (AFR).

Get your AFR correct and you probably wont need any of the other settings, but they are there if you want to tweak them (later) for more/better performance.

Try this and let us know how you go.

EDIT:
your stalling in the shed, definitely sounds like too much fuel from the second pot (yellow); it acts like an accelerator pump.

Edited by AzzA, 25 November 2012 - 03:34 am.

[AzzA]

The intended function of the CO dash settings is to enable compensation for manufacturing and flow differences in the EFI system... because all injectors aren't created equal and nor are their various support and supply components; induction and exhaust components; and sensors; etc.

Once the O2 sensor is removed the (previously set) CO settings will maintain the balance between components as previously set.

I do not recommend making changes to the CO setting if you've installed a TFI or EJK; because the 1st pot/setting (green) will make a uniform adjustment to the AFR and you do not want to upset the previous balance set using the CO.

To set the CO settings correctly you will need an exhaust gas analyser... not the kind of thing that usually in the DIY tool kit.

[Jesse]

Thanks Azza I will try your suggestions. I did read those trouble shooting pages but promptly forgot! It makes sense when you explain the setup. An exhaust gas analyser in the workshop would be nice and I have checked prices. If I win lotto I might get one!

[danresh]

Just thought I should put a good word regarding Dobeck Performance.

Following a thorough consultation with Azza during the past few weeks, mainly through PMs, I requested Dobeck to accept back the EJK they sent me, and replace it with a TFI 1025. They agreed, without hesitating, under warranty.

The EJK was sent back, and ten days later, they emailed me that it had arrived. Five days later, today, I received the FI 1025..

That's good, reliable and sincere service on Dobeck's part, and they should certainly be appreciated for their integrity!

Will advise once the system is installed...

Merry Christmass to all Carpedians wherever you are,

Danresh

[tomwal]

It would be really useful to get a conclusive report from some owners who have installed this device. Does it smooth out the slow running/snatchiness ? What is the effect on fuel consumption ? Is there general performance improvement ? I am sure I am not the only one who would really appreciate this information before deciding to purchase.

Thanks, Tom

[danresh]

I believe Azza is the most experienced regarding this issue. BTW, all your questions were already discussed in previous posts in this thread and Azza offered to compile a detailed manuel which would clarify and help interested Carpedians..

Danresh

[AzzA]

It would be really useful to get a conclusive report from some owners who have installed this device. Does it smooth out the slow running/snatchiness ? What is the effect on fuel consumption ? Is there general performance improvement ? I am sure I am not the only one who would really appreciate this information before deciding to purchase.

Thanks, Tom

G'day Tom,

(hope you're not colour blind; it's late and I'm going to answer lazily)

Yes; most of the 900's suffering snatchiness in the lower RPM are doing so because of too leaner AFR or/and O2 sensors that are not working correctly.

Minimal to negligible; you will likely see some increase around town but highway and mixed cycle mileage do not suffer significantly. The 900 will still be a miser by comparison to any similarly sized bike, and you'll get still 350-400+kms per tank when touring fully loaded with 3 boxes and a fully kitted 110kg+ nut screwed to the seat.

From idle to ~4000RPM there is a definite improvement in performance... I have no idea what a dynamometer might show but... the throttle response becomes more linear and low end torque feels much stronger. The bike is more tractable, at lower RPM, and far better behaved at low/town speeds and there is no detriment to highway performance. You won't break any records at Nürburgring but you'll enjoy the tour there much more and arrive less stressed.

My results are based on my experience with a 2009 model, but most of this will hold true for any EFI bike:
Things like the TFI and EJK aren't always going to fix every ill behaving bike; there are other considerations that you should attend to first.
LIke:
1. check your throttle cable free-play...set it as per the manual... but, I have found, a little more than the manual says can help.
2. Use the right fuel. The TDM isn't a high tuned race engine; it wont make use of high RON (premium) fuels and they can cause poor low RPM running. I have found the local 91 RON to be best all-round... 95RON can get more miles per tank on the highway but can run rough around town... 98RON is as per 95 but with even worse low RPM running (and the bike can stink of un-burnt fuel). The higher RON premium fuels are more viscous and, unless the engine is made for them, will not mix and burn as they should which causes rich running and can foul ignition plugs. The TDM was designed for low RON fuels so run it on them; the only time to go higher is if nothing else is available or the ambient temperature is often around 40 degrees C (this will prevent pre-detonation or pinking). (There's lots of information to support what I've just said, you'll even find it at the fuel manufacturers websites.)
3. balance throttle bodies. Fine tuning here can do wonders, but I've not read of a 900 that was ever much out of balance. Try to set the vacuum at the highest possible level within spec'; this does (as you'll find mentioned on Carpe several times) make the most difference to low end behaviour that the OEM tuning method can give.
4. set the correct final drive chain tension/slack... too much slack can exaggerate the snatching.
5. get more exhaust flow. either buy and fit a good after-market muffler set or modify the OEM mufflers. More flow definitely helps with low RPM torque delivery, and you don't need something loud to make a huge difference. (The cheapest option seems to be the Fuel Exhausts for a new purchase, but second-hand can be good too, shop around.)
6. air filter... K&N is a popular fit/mod... but, to be honest I doubt there is any real benefit to performance on the TDM. Certainly nothing that will alter low RPM running. (I've only added this line for completeness.)
7. Air-box mod... post ~2007 bikes, don't do it; it won't help (unless you're susceptible to the placebo effect)... pre 2006 bikes, it's said to help and may well do so (but if you add a TFI I would try removing the airbox mod and then tuning the bike... or, you could try it both ways and settle for the better).
8. Fit and tune a TFI/EJK/PCIII and tune it. Which device you chose will be based on budget and your own DIY abilities.

The TFI-1025 suits the TDM900 best IMHO; it gives the range of adjustment needed, is relatively cheap, and any half decent DIY'er can fit and tune it.

So much for me giving a lazy answer.... I must suffer keyboardiarrhea... and I shouldn't have had that nanna-nap after work.


"conclusive report"... not sure where you'll ever get one of these unless you're prepared to try something for yourself or have a close relationship with someone that does try it.
I will give you the most objective report I can... and it'll probably far too wordy, by half... but conclusive is a tall order.

From my participation in this thread, we've had a few owners install the TFI-1025 and they're sounding happy with them; if they weren't they'd be posting more often, of that I'm sure.

We've had someone source a similar TFI, but not the 1025, and they managed to get good results with it after some slight wiring changes.

Danresh has had a bad run with an EJK for his later (2009?) model TDM... it's our opinion that the base tune on the EJK is not good for the post 2007 bikes (due to changes in the ECU and air-box flap etc). Dobeck only list them for 2002-2007 and the sales advice given to Danresh was IMHO just plain uninformed wrong. I'm sure Danresh will let us know how he goes with the TFI-1025, but I suspect he'll have a positive experience this time around (I've got my fingers crossed for him).

But, what we haven't seen is anyone having had any bad experiences with the TFI-1025 thus far. I'm sure members would be telling us if they did. There's been well over 2500 reads of this thread so it not like it's obscure or hidden on the forum.

If you Google around you'll find the Dobeck TFI's being used on Harleys and all sorts of other twin bikes. There's also a number of other similar products that do exactly the same thing, the same way, but with different names and price tags. Most of these products are sold for specific models of bikes.

As owners of TDM's we suffer a unique problem in that the bike we own and love has not proliferated in the US market; it's a niche product, and a bloody good one, but that means we don't have the mainstream after-market manufacturers developing lots of alternate products for us. We do see some great bolt-on products coming from Germany, France, and the UK etc. but the local laws there mean that performance products, that alter engine management, are few and far between. Dobeck are in the US where laws vary widely from state to state but, on the whole, are more relaxed than EU... but Dobeck don't have direct access to the TDM for R&D... the TFI-1025 is a generic product that can be used on a number of twin cylinder EFI engines, so we TDM owners can use this product (it's not a simple plug-in but works very well none the less)... the EJK (plug-in) is a product for a specific model, so Dobeck need to work with partners with access to the TDM and they've done this for the pre-2008 bikes and are in the process of trying to include the whole TDM900 range. I'm sure they'll get it sorted but, until they do, the TFI-1025 will work for all TDM900's.


TLDR?... sorry.

Edited by AzzA, 19 December 2012 - 03:43 pm.

[tdm850rider]

If enough forum members are interested I could condense the TFI-1025 instructions into one new thread

A good step by step how-to with pictures would be a good addition to KB, even if there is one... two is better.

[tomwal]

Hi Azza
Thanks very much for taking the trouble to put together such a excellent reply - I think it is as near to a "conclusive report" as I was expecting. I am going to buy a TFI-1025 in the new year and check the other items you mention. I reckon I may have to adjust my chain because I err on the side of adjusting it too loose so as not too risk damaging the bearings. Also there is quite a lot of play in my throttle. I may buy some new pipes but will have to do some more research. I am really pleased with my TDM - it is amazingly frugal out of town - In the new year I hope I will now be able to improve its urban behaviour (I have to pay special attention on speed humps !) .
I will added my experiences to the forum when I have done the mods.
Thanks again and Happy Christmas and New Year.
Tom

[AzzA]

Thanks Fellas,

we're just about to knock-off for the Xmas/NewYear break... it's summer here so we're off to the beach to enjoy sand between our toes. I wont have too much internet access but we'll have the laptop with us so I might be able to put together the starts of a condensed guide, but no promises so you might have to wait until mid February for something polished. I really do need a fecking break.

Speed humps, small roundabouts, and shared pathways were once the bane of my TDM experience, but... they're a doddle now I've got the bike sorted.

Items 1 through 7, in my post, above do help in varying degrees but what nailed it for me was tuning the TFI-1025 with the O2 sensor disabled. It really was chalk and cheese.

I once had an aversion to riding my TDM around town, because it could be so unpredictable, and preferred to ride an old carburetored V-twin cruiser for around town scoots... now the cruiser is getting dusty.

Go for it Tom; I highly doubt you'll regret it. Take your time and check the wiring for your model against what I've posted (just to be sure; after all, I don't know everything). Also take your time with the tuning, particularly of the left most (Green) pot'; it's the one that sets your AFR and make all the difference. It can be fiddly and it can be subjective, but you'll know if you've gt it right when you test ride it.

Once you've got it sorted, the hardest part is to get rid of the old habit of anticipating the bad behavior... sounds daft now, but just wait until you're going over those speed humps later.

[TDMTAM]

Well all going well I should have a Dobeck Performance tfi-1025 unit here in the next fortnight total cost £92.
Here's hoping it arrive and I can get the good results shown on this thread.
TAM

[danresh]

You undoubtedly will. The advantage of this system is that it can do no harm, it can only improve your bike's behaviour....

Danresh

[gabby]

Finally got around to working out some fuel consumption figures after fitting the EJK. Prior to the modification I would get an average of around 4.5 litres/100 km with mostly country riding. Not breaking the sound barrier, but not dawdling either. Now getting almost the same number after fitting the EJK, which surprised me. However around town and when giving it a lot more throttle, the consumption has gone up quite a bit, perhaps 5%. This is with the settings in my last post. Probably as expected since most of the improvements by way of extra fuel are at the low end.

I should add that these are with the speedo corrected, so I'm confident they are true.

So the verdict to date is a more likable bike around town, and still more than 400km on a tank when touring. All good really.

[graeme]

Go for it Tom; I highly doubt you'll regret it. Take your time and check the wiring for your model against what I've posted (just to be sure; after all, I don't know everything). Also take your time with the tuning, particularly of the left most (Green) pot'; it's the one that sets your AFR and make all the difference. It can be fiddly and it can be subjective, but you'll know if you've gt it right when you test ride it."


What!!
not another fondly held belief down the tubes!
Thank god father xmas remains real.
Its a bit cool along the coast Azza, you need to come inland a bit (read, mountains)

Graeme

Edited by graeme, 29 December 2012 - 09:40 am.

[AzzA]

What!!
not another fondly held belief down the tubes!
Thank god father xmas remains real.
Its a bit cool along the coast Azza, you need to come inland a bit (read, mountains)

Graeme

Never mind the cool coast; it's the flat coast with mostly straight roads that's the dull bit... we're trying to offload the little one so we can do a run into SA and enjoy some roads with bends in 'em, we just need to butter Grandma up to the idea of sitting a teenager.

Oh well.... there's always the Easter Bunny.