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Dobeck Performance "tfi-1025" Efi Tuner For The Tdm900

jerk stutter chug slow buck throttle EFI fix tune tuning

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#81 gabby

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:51 am

Hi all. Some first impressions after trying out the EJK. The bike was running well prior to the EJK modification. It has a K&N filter and a modified standard exhaust for more flow. No other engine mods.

I first tried it with the standard settings for the TDM and with the O2 sensor connected. That was never going to be the way it was used finally, with both EJK and the O2 sensor, because it would defeat the purpose of the mod. Behaviour didn’t really seem any different to standard.

Next step was to disconnect the O2 sensor; again no difference (which just makes me even more certain after making earlier measurements that the sensor has minimal involvement in the TDM brain).

One observation after fitting was that the first LED would blink green at idle. According to the factory info, this indicates that none of the programmed fuel zones are active. So I reduced the Green-Blue setting from the standard 5, and at around 3 to 4 the LED stopped flashing indicating that the box was now in the green fuel zone and having some effect at idle. The performance just off idle did actually improve slightly I think, just a bit smoother. A Green-Blue setting any lower that the point at which the first LED stops flashing at idle probably has no effect, but I lowered it to near the minimum for good measure. Performance at this point was maybe a little better, but not enough to justify buying the kit.

I then increased the Green setting from the standard 3, and at 5 I noticed an improvement whereby the snatchiness coming off the throttle stop was reduced. By that I mean that if you were travelling along in first or second gear with no throttle, then rolled the throttle on, there was no sudden snatch as I previously had. It was also a far better experience in tight hairpin turns and small roundabouts. I didn’t realise that at first because I had learnt to deal with the bike’s behaviour, then it dawned on me what was different. So that is the big leap forward so far: better and safer manners in tight corners. ...Edit: I should stress that riding with no throttle in a corner is not what I do of course!!! - the absence of previous snatchiness is just obvious now from no throttle at all up to over 2k.

At this point I also think that when accelerating, it pulls more strongly and evenly between 2,500 and 3,500 rpm. It’s still useless below 2,000 rpm of course and that’s not going to change. However there may be a little more shuddering when accelerating quickly from 4,000 rpm; still not sure if it’s my imagination. An increase in the Green setting is the next thing to try, or even more Yellow could be a solution to the shuddering.

The green zone is active at all speeds and the only time it gets into the yellow is with a reasonable handful of throttle. So any change to Yellow would not have a huge impact on fuel use in normal riding or cruising.

So the current settings are Green = 5; Green-Blue = minimum. I plan to ride it as it is for a while to get used to it and check fuel consumption, then maybe play some more. But on the basis if what I have now it was worth the money.

Edited by gabby, 19 November 2012 - 05:23 am.


#82 danresh

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:47 pm

Hi gabby, at idle do you have now one steady green or two? In my case, whenever I start the engine, the first few seconds there is a line of greens blinking to and fro from left to right and then the two first greens on the left stay steady.
Have you ever encountered such a situation?

At this stage, my green is set at 5.5 and the green/blue at the minimum. I do have the snatchiness upon rolling the throttle in first and second gears.Accelerating from 2000 RPM is smooth but keeping the revs at 2000 either on first or second - the bike still surges.

Danresh
Danresh - the HolyLand TDM knight

TDM900 (2009) - Lowered suspension, Lowered side-stand with wider tip, O2 sensor removed, Givi top and side-cases, H-7+90% headlights, Additional blinking backlights, Stehbel horn, Secdem screen, BMW1150 Bar-risers, Remote controled cellular alarm sys, Throttle lock cruise control, CrumpBuster, GIpro-x type Gear Indicator, Mirrors raised up and out. Rear sprocket-46 teeth. Speedo Healer. K&N AirFilter. Barkbusters Storm Hand-Guards. Dobeck Performance TFI-1025 injection control. Skene Design P3 back LED lights. G-2 Throttle Tamer. BikeVis Bullet LED DRLs on handguards. LED fairing light. 2 Cree U5 LED fog-lights mounted on engine guard. MRA Xcreen on windshield. PR3 tyres.

#83 gabby

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:00 pm

Danresh
I had only one green most of the time at idle, but recall that it didn't take much throttle to get two so it perhaps it isn't significant. The number of active LEDS just indicates how far up the curve you are so maybe slight idle adjustment would affect it.
The scrolling LED pattern for a few seconds at startup is normal. It's either doing a power-on-self-test, or more likely just showing off. Go to the EJK site - there is a page on Controller Unit Functionality that explains the LED functions.
I've never really had a big surging problem as others have reported. If everything else on the bike is set up correctly, all I can suggest is keep experimenting.

Take care out there. G

Edited by gabby, 19 November 2012 - 11:01 pm.


#84 AzzA

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:35 am

Danresh,

have you removed the O2 sensor from the circuit?
I see you have geared down the final drive and fitted a K&N filter... What is your exhaust/muffler setup?

Gabby,

are you still running the modified stock muffler, or something else?

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#85 gabby

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:03 am

Hi. Yes, standard exhaust with the end cut out and a perforated baffle fitted. A lot more open but not noisy. Apart from that just a K&N filter fitted. The airbox mod has been removed. Running 91 fuel. I don't really sit on 2,000 rpm in any gear for long, but it does not seem to surge there.

#86 danresh

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:13 am

O2 sensor cancelled and so is the airbox mod. Standard exhaust but K&N filter. Geared down with 46 teeth rear sprocket. Doing a lot of in-city commuting and that's why so sensitive to bike's behaviour in first and second gears at low revs...

Thanks gabby, as you can see, still care for my bike - inspite of having to run for shelter when the alarm sirens go off from time to time.. Seems we are at the end of this round of violence now and hoping to see the end of hostilities soon. That's what life looks like when you live in a "villa in the jungle"

All the best
Danresh
Danresh - the HolyLand TDM knight

TDM900 (2009) - Lowered suspension, Lowered side-stand with wider tip, O2 sensor removed, Givi top and side-cases, H-7+90% headlights, Additional blinking backlights, Stehbel horn, Secdem screen, BMW1150 Bar-risers, Remote controled cellular alarm sys, Throttle lock cruise control, CrumpBuster, GIpro-x type Gear Indicator, Mirrors raised up and out. Rear sprocket-46 teeth. Speedo Healer. K&N AirFilter. Barkbusters Storm Hand-Guards. Dobeck Performance TFI-1025 injection control. Skene Design P3 back LED lights. G-2 Throttle Tamer. BikeVis Bullet LED DRLs on handguards. LED fairing light. 2 Cree U5 LED fog-lights mounted on engine guard. MRA Xcreen on windshield. PR3 tyres.

#87 AzzA

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:44 am

Danresh,

your final gearing is nearly as low as mine (15/43), the difference to yours is negligible, so you should be able to tune the bike to crawl along at idle doing about 10kmh... mine will even manage it uphill.

Gabby makes the point about 91RON fuel... there's no benefit for town/city riding to use any higher rated fuels, in fact there will more than likely be a detriment... 91 is best for most TDM900 purposes. You can get higher mileage returns using 95RON, or higher, if you're doing high RPM or highway miles but the low RPM ride can suffer.

if however you're not able to get it doing that, by tweaking the EFI, it might be that your exhaust is the limiting factor. I modified the OEM exhaust some time ago and found that doing that alone was a great improvement to low RPM behaviour. Gabby did a similar modification to the OEM mufflers, and I've seen another very professional example, and it does seem to make a difference... if I remember correctly, Gabby was also seeing benefit.

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#88 danresh

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:09 pm

Azza
Thanks for the advice. Regarding the fuel - we do not have 91 anymore, only 95 and 98. I am using 95. Will look into the exhausts issue as soon as I have the time. I will probably contemplate changing them rather than modifying.

Anyway, if you are able to crawl at 10kph on idle without surging, then I certainly have an attainable goal to aspire to...
Take care
Danresh
Danresh - the HolyLand TDM knight

TDM900 (2009) - Lowered suspension, Lowered side-stand with wider tip, O2 sensor removed, Givi top and side-cases, H-7+90% headlights, Additional blinking backlights, Stehbel horn, Secdem screen, BMW1150 Bar-risers, Remote controled cellular alarm sys, Throttle lock cruise control, CrumpBuster, GIpro-x type Gear Indicator, Mirrors raised up and out. Rear sprocket-46 teeth. Speedo Healer. K&N AirFilter. Barkbusters Storm Hand-Guards. Dobeck Performance TFI-1025 injection control. Skene Design P3 back LED lights. G-2 Throttle Tamer. BikeVis Bullet LED DRLs on handguards. LED fairing light. 2 Cree U5 LED fog-lights mounted on engine guard. MRA Xcreen on windshield. PR3 tyres.

#89 AzzA

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:05 am

Measured it today... speedo is healed and the tacho is OEM...

12kph @ 1100RPM on flat bitumen with no throttle and clutch fully engaged = a bit of a surge, mostly from chain slack being taken up on every engine pulse, but it's not unsettling.

Tractable acceleration from here upwards.

14kph @ 1400RPM on upward sloping concrete with clutch fully engaged = smooth and steady. (I can also slip the clutch at these revs and ride behind pedestrians on the same slope, without a revving engine noise unsettling them... there's very little to no gyroscopic inertia holding the bike up at pedestrian pace so turning becomes an art form on such a high bike.)

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#90 danresh

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:22 am

Azza

Appreciate the time and effort you putting in encouraging us, newcomers to the EFI systems.

Memorised the data you supplied and will try it today and advise my results later this evening...

Cheers
Danresh
Danresh - the HolyLand TDM knight

TDM900 (2009) - Lowered suspension, Lowered side-stand with wider tip, O2 sensor removed, Givi top and side-cases, H-7+90% headlights, Additional blinking backlights, Stehbel horn, Secdem screen, BMW1150 Bar-risers, Remote controled cellular alarm sys, Throttle lock cruise control, CrumpBuster, GIpro-x type Gear Indicator, Mirrors raised up and out. Rear sprocket-46 teeth. Speedo Healer. K&N AirFilter. Barkbusters Storm Hand-Guards. Dobeck Performance TFI-1025 injection control. Skene Design P3 back LED lights. G-2 Throttle Tamer. BikeVis Bullet LED DRLs on handguards. LED fairing light. 2 Cree U5 LED fog-lights mounted on engine guard. MRA Xcreen on windshield. PR3 tyres.

#91 danresh

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:09 pm

Following my previous post. test-rode the bike, same parameters as Azza: 1100 RPM 12KPH and 1400RPM 14 KPH (both bikes have identical RPM Vs Speed parameters!, probably due to the almost identical gearing).

I regret to report substantial surging on both occasions. Surging disappeared, on first gear, only at about 3400 RPM.

I wonder whether there is a possibility that the EJK is not correctly installed and actually does not have any effect? Would it be possible for the system to be incorrectly connected to the injectors and thus have no effect on them while still they keep functioning as before???

Anyway, I tweaked the throttle rapidly while watching the leds - the 2 steady leds stay on, while "on top of them" red leds blink across from position 1 to 4 and disappear. Is that what I should expect to see?

Danresh
Danresh - the HolyLand TDM knight

TDM900 (2009) - Lowered suspension, Lowered side-stand with wider tip, O2 sensor removed, Givi top and side-cases, H-7+90% headlights, Additional blinking backlights, Stehbel horn, Secdem screen, BMW1150 Bar-risers, Remote controled cellular alarm sys, Throttle lock cruise control, CrumpBuster, GIpro-x type Gear Indicator, Mirrors raised up and out. Rear sprocket-46 teeth. Speedo Healer. K&N AirFilter. Barkbusters Storm Hand-Guards. Dobeck Performance TFI-1025 injection control. Skene Design P3 back LED lights. G-2 Throttle Tamer. BikeVis Bullet LED DRLs on handguards. LED fairing light. 2 Cree U5 LED fog-lights mounted on engine guard. MRA Xcreen on windshield. PR3 tyres.

#92 tomwal

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:05 pm

I have struggled to follow and understand this topic and am starting to to think that this Dobeck thing is a lot more trouble than it is worth. I am thinking that it may be worth spending the extra on a Power Commander 3 to make the bike run better at low rev.

#93 tdm850rider

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:00 pm

Have you guys done 'the airbox mod'? See JBX site.
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#94 tomwal

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:32 pm

I tried the airbox mod on my 2008 900 and have now removed it - the bike runs better without.

#95 OldGit

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:26 am

I have struggled to follow and understand this topic and am starting to to think that this Dobeck thing is a lot more trouble than it is worth. I am thinking that it may be worth spending the extra on a Power Commander 3 to make the bike run better at low rev.


PC3 is much more expensive and needs maps loading (IIRC). Dobeck can be changed on the fly - just carry a small screwdriver and adjust it until it's right then hide it away. I put a PC3 on my Vstrom a few years back and it took a couple of months trying many maps before I got it running properly. Dobeck on the TDM brought immediate improvements just using the recommended settings, and offers easy fine adjustment.

My TDM now pulls from 1800 rpm right through the rev range with no surging snatching or coughing. I reckon it would be usable at lower revs if I changed the chain and sprockets and had the throtle bodies balanced.

Having said that if it wasn't for this site and the efforts of Azza and others taking the time and trouble to write how to's and their findings the Dobeck would have been a PITA, fortunately we have a great forum here to help us all out.

HTH

Cheers

Nick

Edited by OldGit, 23 November 2012 - 09:28 am.

Alright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer.

#96 tomwal

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:03 am

Thanks, Nick - your PC3 experience will save me some money. I will now consider going the Dobeck route. It is just that I am not that experienced in tuning of engine management and the details of some of the discussion are quite intimidating. You are right this is a fantastic forum - I have found a lot of useful information to make mods to my bike - HIDs, heated grips, relays etc.
Thanks again
Tom

#97 tomwal

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:31 am

Thanks to all the great information, I am now thinking of getting the EJK version. One issue is whether my insurance company could use this an excuse to invalidate my insurance if I had an accident - should I inform them that I have done this mod ? Also might it afffect the UK MOT - would I have to disconnect at MOT time ?
Thanks
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#98 dmmsta

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:03 pm

At present I don't think the MOT does gas analysis, so they're not going to know it's even there :)
MY06 TDM 900 Blue over Silver 354906_45.png
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Fuel Pipes
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Renthal 758's
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#99 OldGit

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:09 pm

Tom
I'd be surprised if anyone ever noticed the dobeck in the event of a prang...

BTW my Dobeck comments pertain to the FI-1025, not the EJK, I'm not sure if the EJK is as easy to tune on the fly as mine - can those who have fitted one comment?

Ta

Nick
Alright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer.

#100 danresh

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:00 pm

OldGit,
The difference between the two is only in the actual tuning technique- in your case you use a screwdriver for turning the pots, the EJK is tuned by pressing with a finger in order to switch between the modes and then increasing or decreasing the fuel flow to the injectors.

See Azza's very detailed input in previous posts.

Doing it on the fly is just as easy, provided you had placed it in an easily accessable spot. Mine is under the seat, which requires stopping, unlocking and raising the seat, and then locking it back in place. That's why , when test riding, I carry my spare key so as not to switch the engine off every time.....

Anyway, I am still trying to obtain Azza's extraordinary tuning results - and still not there yet.

Danresh
Danresh - the HolyLand TDM knight

TDM900 (2009) - Lowered suspension, Lowered side-stand with wider tip, O2 sensor removed, Givi top and side-cases, H-7+90% headlights, Additional blinking backlights, Stehbel horn, Secdem screen, BMW1150 Bar-risers, Remote controled cellular alarm sys, Throttle lock cruise control, CrumpBuster, GIpro-x type Gear Indicator, Mirrors raised up and out. Rear sprocket-46 teeth. Speedo Healer. K&N AirFilter. Barkbusters Storm Hand-Guards. Dobeck Performance TFI-1025 injection control. Skene Design P3 back LED lights. G-2 Throttle Tamer. BikeVis Bullet LED DRLs on handguards. LED fairing light. 2 Cree U5 LED fog-lights mounted on engine guard. MRA Xcreen on windshield. PR3 tyres.



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