135 replies to this topic

[NickIAM]

Yes I've watched plenty.
 
Have you seen the S.E.G. working ? Very interesting to see how they work together...... The actual bike ride starts at about 4m20s

 
I remember before i did the BikeSafe course how I would often be on the 'wrong side' of the road, just because it gave a better natural view.....but i was always uncomfortable because I had the thought in the back of my mind that if the police ever saw me they would want to advise me about my 'dangerous' driving.
 
Then i did BikeSafe and realised that it wasn't just me who did it !

Very interesting. Haven't watched it all yet, but I will. Excellent.

Re straight-lining bends: I LOVE doing it, but even when out with the IAM for a group ride, sometimes I may be the only one out 'there'. The others could be more concerned with staying in formation, but also I guess not everyone is comfortable with it. (Even amongst advanced riders.)

[fixitsan]

I straight line bends now and again, but the other times I go onto the 'other side' of the carriageway is on left hand bends, when moving all the way over to the right gives you an improved view around the left hand bend...... like at 5:10 and again at 5:40 in this video, and particularly 7:55.

 

The 0vertake at 8:50 is more what I'm talking about.....I've had people waving their hands at me when I've done that on an almost identical piece of road, but of course you can't stop and explain to them how much safer it is for you to do that, than to try to pass them closely 1 metre from their right door when your view to the front is seriously impeded by the other cars in front.

 

[harvey krumpet]

Great watch. Thank you for posting. That's a different level of road craft and training.

 

 

Crossing the center line? I'm firmly on my side of the fence. The lines are to stop traffic driving into each other. If the excuse is to increase visibility your doing it wrong, slow down instead.

I think it was originally Police vids that brought the idea to popular attention. Try riding through London like those cops... We can learn from them but should not imitate them.

Just sayin...

Edited by harvey krumpet, 08 January 2016 - 10:43 am.

[fixitsan]

I used to have the same view Harvey, but maybe this is a better example....scroll forwards to 4:40

 

Imagine the rider taking another line instead, tight on the left, otherwise called the 'racing line' ....you can see how his view ahead is strictly limited by the inside hedge he is skirting around.

 

If he stays on the nearside but moves over to the white lines he does get a better view, but the best view is on the outside. If no other road users are impeded in any way, and if you have observed that the offside is safe, no vehicles, driveways, junctions and a good road surface then your safety on that line is increased more than if taking the inside line IMHO

 

(And this is all done at legal speeds)

 

Edited by fixitsan, 08 January 2016 - 11:39 am.

[Studley Ramrod]

Well, if it's good enough for bikers to straighten the corner then why not cars, buses and lorries too ?   If you need to cross the line to see where you're going, you're probably going too fast imho.

[dapleb]

Contact EDAM !

I hear its made backwards?

[fixitsan]

I hear its made backwards?

 

There's definitely something cheesey about it....

[fixitsan]

Well, if it's good enough for bikers to straighten the corner then why not cars, buses and lorries too ?    If you need to cross the line to see where you're going, you're probably going too fast imho.

 

 

I get where you're coming from, but look at it another way

- enter a left hander at 40mph, tight into the kerb

- enter the left hander at 40mph positioned more to the right

 

The first option reduces the length of the distance which you can see ahead.

 

The worst thing in the world is to take a left hander positioned on the left side of the nearside - if the corner tightens then you have very few options, braking mid corner destabilises the bike and you're left with only being able to drift wide while you try to save it.  Go into the same corner positioned more to the right and you get an advanced warning that the corner tightens, and because you're radius of turn is greater than if you were going up the inside then you're bike is naturally more stable. There's also a better chance you'll see the cyclist or pedestrian, which is always just out of view when you keep left.

 

I admit it has to be a rare set of circumstances....no oncoming traffic, a good view ahead, good road surface, camber in your favour, no exits and entrys on the right, etc  but there are times when stayiong out on the offside is the naturally safest thing to do to get a view around a corner before you turn into it.

 

If you don't agree you can call me nuts

Edited by fixitsan, 08 January 2016 - 02:10 pm.

[ProudViking]

Well, if it's good enough for bikers to straighten the corner then why not cars, buses and lorries too ?    If you need to cross the line to see where you're going, you're probably going too fast imho.

Lorries, especially Class 1s, very often straght-line bends. Granted not very acute ones, but we do (Yes I drove HGVs!) cut gentle bends.

[NickIAM]

(I do it in the car too, since being taught by the IAM. if it's safe, it's safe.)

Re the Advanced motorcycle training:
Apparently they used to teach that one should (SHOULD!) cross the centre line when approaching a left-hander, when safe to do so, so as to get a better view...

BUT, some riders got themselves onto trouble, so they changed the IAM training (ROSPA as well I assume) to say that the rider should not cross the line to GET a better view, but may stay out once already out (such as after an overtake) to KEEP a view.

Edited by NickIAM, 08 January 2016 - 03:35 pm.

[NickIAM]

By the way, as with anything, not all advanced riders will be the same.

My instructor told me of one of his students who hated overtaking, and told the examiner at the start of the test that he would not be doing any.

He passed (despite missing some perfectly good opportunities).

After the test my instructor asked the examiner why he passed him. He explained he rode so well the rest of the time that he couldn't fail him.

[fixitsan]

I can understand them changing their policy Nick.

 

When i did BikeSadfe there were 2 participants to each police motorcyclist (who rode in the middle of us 2 participants)

 

When it was the other participant's turn to lead we came up on a very long sweepy left hander, 60mph limit, with cars doing 50mph, in good bright dry conditions, so the lead participant moved out to overtake. The cop (who was in front of me and I was at the back) moved out to almost the right offside gutter and stayed there....and I followed him. At a certain point he ducked back left to look up the inside of the bike of the lead participant (because he thought he had a gear change problem) and I thought 'shit, do I go back in too ?'  Seeing that i had a fabulous view ahead I just stayed out there until the road straightened, in doing so we passed every car very safely.

 

When we got back the police rider commented "When i pulled in left and you stayed out, that's when I knew you were enjoying the best view"

 

The other particpant admitted he didn't like to cross the centre line except when overtaking and he never did.......But it was funny that when we got onto a stretch of road with no centre line, he was happy to use both sides of the road then. What a difference a painted line makes !

After the test my instructor asked the examiner why he passed him. He explained he rode so well the rest of the time that he couldn't fail him.

 

During the BikeSafe classroom session about half of the class said they didn't like the term 'making progress'. We were all middle aged riders who often just like to be on the bike riding not attemptiong to get ahead of any traffic, and it came up in discussion that the imperative to make progress in IAM and ROSPA training was wrong.

 

Not having had any of that training I can't comment. I think 'making progress' is open to a broad range of interpretations though

Lorries, especially Class 1s, very often straght-line bends. Granted not very acute ones, but we do (Yes I drove HGVs!) cut gentle bends.

 

I'll often slow down and sometimes even stop before entering a corner to let an oncoming lorry or bus make full use of the road or street.

[Studley Ramrod]

I agrozzle, it is open to some interpretation.

 

You can fail your bike test if you don't "make progress"  I'm guessing it'd have to be pretty obvious though.

 

You can also fail for making too much progress.   Loike wot oi did.  Doing 70mph in a 50mph zone, apparently.  I missed the fookin' roadworks sign on the A1.    Then came the voice of doom in my headset  "Ian, slow down please "  Another £60 up the swanny.

[ProudViking]

During my driving instructor training I also learnt that you can cross any broken line on the road for whatever reason, as long as it is safe to do so.

 

You can also cross any solid line, but only if it is needed to and if it is safe to.

 

Lorries have to cross both all the time merely to turn in and out of roads.

 

I say this because everyone I've spoken to about this rule think you can't cross a solid line for any reason!

[NickIAM]

That was the bit that worried me re the IAM test, (as well as going too fast when overtaking) overtaking and not making it back in time and clipping a solid white...

I was told of a chap who did it twice on the test so was failed for it. (Slightly amusing story: he overtook two vehicles and went 6 feet or so over a solid white when coming back in. The examiner knew it was there and that he wouldn't make it so didn't overtake. The student stopped and let the vehicles go passed and the test carried on. They caught up the same two vehicles and he did the exact same thing again, with the same vehicles, when he overtook them again.

Doh.

I try not to go over solid lines; but if needs must. I confess I bollock the speed limit if in a national and overtaking.

[ProudViking]

That was the bit that worried me re the IAM test, (as well as going too fast when overtaking) overtaking and not making it back in time and clipping a solid white...

I was told of a chap who did it twice on the test so was failed for it. (Slightly amusing story: he overtook two vehicles and went 6 feet or so over a solid white when coming back in. The examiner knew it was there and that he wouldn't make it so didn't overtake. The student stopped and let the vehicles go passed and the test carried on. They caught up the same two vehicles and he did the exact same thing again, with the same vehicles, when he overtook them again.

Doh.

I try not to go over solid lines; but if needs must. I confess I bollock the speed limit if in a national and overtaking.

Bit of a Catch 22 there! Get failed for not making progress or get failed for returning to your lane in a safe manner i.e using the solid line instead of a sharp turn in to beat it!

[NickIAM]

Indeed. One of the reasons why I don't like tests, and don't want to redo this one to get the 'First'. Just happy to have done it once: and now happy to keep trying to get better - for myself. No test.



Note: That, and I would have to try to re-learn the highway code again. And that's harder for me than anything else.

Edited by NickIAM, 08 January 2016 - 07:01 pm.

[ProudViking]

I don't like tests either, imagine waking up on the morning of your motorbike test to deep snow and a skyfull to boot!! Never felt truly sick for any driving test...except for that one.

 

 

...Thank the gods I passed

[Catteeclan]

Did the bike safe some years ago and enjoyed it. Mandi (the misses) wanted to do more but never got round to it.

This thread has got busy, gonna have to come back when I've got more time.

[NickIAM]

ROSPA or IAM, or whatever; I think every motorcyclist should do (would benefit from) the advanced/Roadcraft training, even if not doing the test. Smoother, safer, quicker; what's not to like?


Honest Injun.